The New Nation - Internet Edition

Yoginder Sikand

Syed Jalaluddin Umari is the President (amir) of the Jamaat-e Islami Hind in this interview with Yoginder Sikand talks about the recent wave of terror attacks in India, attacks on Muslims and on moves to set up a Muslim political party in India.

Q: What do you have to say about the recent wave of bomb blasts across India , which the media and the intelligence agencies have sought to blame Muslims for?

A: Soon after the deadly state-sponsored anti-Muslim pogroms in Gujarat in 2002 there was a sort of lull in communal violence and disruptive acts, but now, over the last year or so, suddenly blasts are happening in various parts of the country, causing widespread death and destruction and indiscriminate arrests, mainly of Muslim youths. The state agencies, the police and the media have sought to blame Muslims for all these disruptive acts, but, as the recent revelations about the role of Hindutva groups in the Malegaon and Modassa incidents clearly shows, this accusation appears to have little merit. In the wake of blasts across India , scores of Muslims have been targeted, picked up by the police and tortured, and the law has not been allowed to take its proper course. All that we have, in the vast majority of cases, are confessions probably forcibly procured by the police from those arrested, and this cannot be adduced as proof in any court of law. Yet, the media takes these confessional statements extracted under duress as gospel truth and has been engaged in a concerted campaign to brand Muslims as terrorists.

Q: So, do you mean to say that Muslims might not be responsible for these various blasts, contrary to what the media and the intelligence agencies allege?

A: I am not saying that there might not be even a single Muslim who could engage in disruptive activities. But I strongly feel, and this some sections of the media are themselves now saying, that these blasts might have been perpetrated by fiercely anti-Muslim groups, by radical Hindutva outfits or their activists, who seek, along with the media and the intelligence agencies, to blame Muslims for them so that Islam and Muslims get a bad name. They want to thereby divide the people of India against each other, widen communal polarisation, create anti-Muslim hysteria and consolidate a Hindu vote-bank, particularly keeping in mind the coming elections. Anyone with a bit of commonsense must certainly wonder why Muslims would engage in such activities when they cause grave harm and damage to Muslims themselves, because after these blasts it is inevitably Muslims alone who are arrested or gunned down in fake encounters and who have to suffer increasing suspicion and hatred from other communities. And then several of these blasts have taken place in Muslim localities, even in mosques, dargahs and Muslim graveyards, where those killed and injured have been wholly Muslims. Why on earth would Muslims target their own people? Why are the police and the media not coming out in the open about the evidence of militant Hindutva groups and activists being involved in several terrorist attacks and bomb blasts? Why is this not being branded or described as terrorism?

I must also state here that all Indian Muslim organizations and notable leaders have openly and forcefully condemned all these disruptive acts, no matter who their perpetrators might be. These activities harm our country, kill innocent people, Hindus, Muslims and others, and do the most damage to Muslims, because it is Muslims who inevitably bear the brunt of the wrath of the police, the intelligence agencies and the media in the aftermath of these incidents even when they are not behind them.

We demand a proper and fair investigation into all such incidents. But is this being done? I regret to say it is not. Take the case of the recent killing of two Muslim youth in Batla House in New Delhi . Muslim as well as secular human rights organizations are raising serious questions about the police's version of the story, and they are demanding a proper investigation of the incident. This is a purely democratic demand, but why is it that this is not conceded? Are the authorities afraid that such an investigation might reveal the police's version to be false? To claim, as those who oppose this sort of investigation say, that this would result in the lowering of the morale of the police is completely bizarre.

Q: What, then, do you think is the way out?

A: We want the law to take its proper course. We want the legal process to be allowed to properly function. Unfortunately, however, this is not happening in scores of cases. Muslims are being arbitrarily arrested and branded, by the police, intelligence agencies and the media, as terrorists, though the courts as yet have not delivered any judgment. Our point is that if any persons, no matter what their religion, or if any organization, irrespective of whichever community it is associated with, are proved, after proper investigation, to be indeed involved in these blasts, they must be punished according to the law.

Q: What do you feel about the charges about the banned Students' Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) being behind these blasts? After all, at one time, the SIMI was the youth wing of the Jamaat-e Islami.

A: It should be clear that SIMI was never a wing of the Jamaat. Jamaat has its own wing, the SIO (formed in 1982). In 1992, the Iqdam-e-Ummat conference was organized by SIMI in Mumbai. There the SIMI activists used intemperate language. Then the Jamaat-e Islami Hind decided that henceforth no Jamaat representative would attend any SIMI meetings. This was done to emphasize the Jamaat's stand that the language used by Muslims must be proper and balanced. Prior to this, we had tried to make the SIMI realize that their immature approach was wrong, and under the circumstances it was unrealistic and impractical as well and not in accordance with the Islamic temperament.

However the ground reality is that even before the ban on the SIMI, its influence was rather limited. It was not the hugely influential movement that the media makes it out to be. Moreover as journalists such as Ajit Sahi of Tehelka have shown, no case of SIMI activists being involved in any illegal or disruptive acts has ever been proved in any court. If SIMI was really wedded to terrorism, as is being alleged, then why is it that when it was not banned it did not engage in such activities, and that after the ban, when its wings were clipped, its offices sealed, many of its activists arrested and others who had been associated with it closely watched by intelligence agencies, it was allegedly able to mastermind all these deadly blasts across the country? This question must be asked, but, of course, the media is not asking it.

Q: But surely the SIMI's radical rhetoric was inflammatory and pernicious. Its call for armed jihad, its visceral hatred for and opposition to democracy, secularism and the concept of the nation-state and its appeal for establishing a Caliphate in India naturally made it seen by many Indians, including Muslims, as very dangerous. In this sense, it was akin to some extreme radical Islamist groups in the Arab world. What do you have to say about this sort of approach?

A: Any immature approach is of course wrong and completely impractical and, moreover, it is counter-productive. However, you must realize that much of the SIMI's rhetoric was limited to raising slogans. Islamic movements across the world have increasingly begun to avoid empty rhetoric. They know that any immature action leads to harsh suppression. Islamic movements in various countries are clearly realizing that the only practical avenue before them is through peaceful mass movements which could engage in democratic politics and in elections to present their agenda and win public support. Well-known Islamic parties such as the Jamaat-e Islami of Pakistan and Bangladesh, the Ikhwan ul-Muslimin in Egypt, the Refah Party in Turkey and so on are routinely taking part in elections and seeking peaceful means to come to power. They de facto recognize the existing secular and democratic Constitutions, even though they may not be Islamic Constitutions. Seeking to gain public acceptance and support by participating in elections and using peaceful means is their method.

Q: So, are you suggesting that the radical approach of extremist groups such as Hizb ut Tahrir in the Arab world and Central Asia or the SIMI, which aimed to capture political power through violence to establish what they call an Islamic state, is wrong?

A: To shun peaceful mass movement and adopt coercion is entirely impractical and counter-productive, as I earlier mentioned. As I said, only through peaceful means one may seek to bring about the desired change. However your perception that SIMI aimed to capture power through violence is entirely wrong. Participating in democratic elections is certainly one possibility before the Islamic parties. It is a different matter that when in some countries an Islamic party wins the elections the West (which otherwise keeps harping about democracy) makes sure that such a party does not actually come to power. The instances of Turkey and Algeria can be seen in this context. But even if this happens, there is no practical alternative to the peaceful movement method. After all, how long can the West succeed in denying Muslim masses the regimes that they democratically wish to elect?

Q: In the wake of the terror attacks and bomb blasts across India and the growing hounding of Muslims, what political course would you personally and as head of the Jamaat-e Islami Hind suggest for the Indian Muslims to follow, especially with regard to the forthcoming Parliamentary elections?

A: I would advise Muslims to refrain from emotionalism and seek to struggle for their rights using all available peaceful and legal means. They must desist from any illegal or disruptive activity. In general, they should seek to create avenues of dialogue and build bridges with non-Muslims, including with the people in the media and in political field with genuine commitment to democracy and justice. The Jamaat, along with some other Muslim groups, has been trying to push a constructive agenda forward in the recent past. We have called a meeting that is to be convened soon of leaders of various political parties other than the Congress and BJP and social and human rights activists in Delhi to discuss such an agenda.

All this while, Muslims have been treated as a captive vote-bank of the Congress Party, but, as the ongoing repression of Muslims even in many Congress-ruled states shows, this party has done little for Muslims. In the wake of the disruptive acts and the consequent large-scale persecution of hapless Muslims, the Congress has taken no positive measures at all. It maintains a studious silence, for fear of losing Hindu votes to the BJP. It could have, if it had wanted to, prevented the targeting of Muslims, but it did not do so. Now it is making some feeble attempts to regain Muslim votes before the coming elections by talking of the Hindutva terrorists who are said to be behind the Malegaon and Modassa blasts, but all this while it has remained silent on the ongoing repression of Muslims. Because of this, many Muslims think that as far as Muslim issues are concerned there is little difference between the Congress and the BJP.

My advice to Muslims, and this is also what I think most Muslims would themselves do on their own, is that in states where there is a realistic alternative available to both the Congress and the BJP, Muslims should prefer this alternative, and where there is no such credible alternative they might consider the Congress. This would not be because of any great enthusiasm for that party's record but simply a matter of compulsion.

Q: In this regard, what do you have to say about ongoing talk about setting up of a Muslim political party in India ? According to some sources, the Jamaat-e Islami Hind is also thinking of entering politics.

A: We feel that in today's national and international context, particularly in the face of mounting anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim prejudice, when even legitimate grievances of Muslims are ignored, there is a pressing need for Muslims to make their presence felt in the political realm as well. This can take the shape of a lobby, an opinion-building group or a political party, and through this sort of effort Muslims might be able to talk more effectively with various political parties and present their views and concerns. As to the exact shape this effort will take, we do not really know for sure at the moment. It may well be in the form of a political party with its own agenda. It will work out how best to relate to other parties and to marginalized communities. I don't think such a party may emerge before the coming Parliamentary elections early next year because the time left now is too short. I think that till then the Jamaat will continue with its present policy of seeking to present its views and concerns to various political parties. It will work for the cause of genuine democracy, for equal treatment by the state of all citizens, for social justice for all marginalized communities, such as Dalits, Christians, Sikhs as well as Muslims, and for countering communal fascism.

Q: All these years the Jamaat has stayed aloof from politics. How and why is it that now it wants to become actively politically involved?

A: It is not true to say that we have remained aloof from politics. We understand Islam to be a code of life, which talks about not only prayer and fasting but also about all social and collective affairs, including economics and politics. It is a question of how far existing conditions allow us to organize activities representing the collective aspects of Islam. In any case we have been always been open to change in the face of changing political and social conditions. We have always encouraged our members to seek to particularly interact with secular and democratic parties and convey the Jamaat's views. In view of the mounting anti-Muslim prejudice and attacks on the community and of concerted efforts by powerful fascist groups to practically turn Muslims into second-class citizens by destroying their religious identity, Muslims need to be politically more active. This could take the form of a separate political party which the Jamaat might wish to help form.

Q: What sort of issues would this party take up?

A: As I said, we have not discussed this in detail so far, and it would take a while for things to finally crystallize. The main agenda for the party, if it comes into being, would be working for social justice and genuine democracy, not for Muslims alone but of all communities and sections who might be facing various forms of persecution. This party would not be associated with the Jamaat alone. In any case, the Jamaat would continue to engage in its primary work, of education, propagation and social change. We would like other Muslim groups and organizations to join the party if it comes into being, based on a common minimum agenda, although the Jamaat might have to play a leading role in establishing and guiding it.

(Source: Yogi Sikand. Interview: Jamaat-e Islami Hind Amir on Terrorism in India)

Yvonne Ridley

I FIRST came to Pakistan seven years ago following the horrific events of 9/11 - I am sure every single one of you can remember that day very well.

It was the dawn of a frightening new era - it was the time when George W Bush said: You are either with me or with the terrorists.

Who is with George W Bush now? Who in Pakistan still stands shoulder to shoulder with the President of the United States?

He will be gone from The White House soon, but his rotten legacies will live on. And one of those legacies is his never-ending War on Terror.

His War on Terror gave birth to the cages of Cuba - to Guantanamo Bay where hundreds of our brothers were sold like slaves to the Americans.

I wish this obscenity had happened somewhere else, but the stark reality is retired General Pervez Musharraf and his men got rich on the back of this vile trade - he even admitted it in his autobiography In The Line of Fire.

How could Muslims sink so low as to sell their brothers like parcels of meat?

Slavery was abolished two centuries ago and now we have the US resurrecting it again - shipping captives in shackles once more across the Atlantic.

Because of this outrage, an international organization called Cage Prisoners was launched from London and its work initially focused on the torture and detention of those brothers held in Guantanamo, a boil on the face of humanity.

I became one of the patrons of Cage Prisoners and tried to raise awareness to get justice for our brothers in Islam.

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever believe that sisters would also be swept up in the War on Terror. Never did I ever in my darkest nightmares imagine they would be brutalized, raped and tortured … but they have.

I suppose we should not have been too surprised, after all it seems the US President is totally disinterested in the suffering of others, especially when it comes to Muslims.

Muslim blood is cheap as far as the US military is concerned. The rivers of blood in Iraq and Afghanistan have now been swollen with the blood of innocent Pakistanis.

How did we allow ourselves to sleepwalk into this outrageous state of affairs.

But what still catches my breath is the disinterest expressed by brothers and sisters across the Muslim world to the plight of sisters … and I am talking about all corners of the Muslim world, including here in Pakistan, a country I have grown to love and regard as my second home.

I salute those dear sisters in Lal Masjid who were mocked and ridiculed for trying to close down a brothel - they were mocked and ridiculed for their piety and many of them were martyred as they fought for common decency.

How did we allow that to happen? How did we sink so low?

Newspaper columnists here in Pakistan sneered at their efforts and called their work the Talibanisation of Pakistan.

Anywhere else in the world they would have been praised as feminists and as righteous individuals for trying to close down the sex industry which clearly exploits women.

The Red Mosque has now been painted white - a white wash t how symbolic.

But it's not just the heroic sisters from Lal Masjid which brings me here today.

Five years ago when Cage Prisoners first brought the mystery disappearance of Dr Aafia Siddiqui to the attention of the media no one listened?

OK - five years ago few of us believed that the Bush Administration could really sanction the kidnapping of a mother and her three children.

I know because I was one of those doubters but what changed for me was my own journey to Guantanamo earlier this year. For some bizarre reason the Americans agreed to give me and film-maker David Miller unprecedented access to the world's most notorious prison - and even more amazingly they let us out again.

I am probably one of the few Muslims who flew half way across the world to get to Guantanamo without having to be shackled, shaved and abused.

The experience as brief as it was left me shocked - in fact as I left the maximum security block at Camp Delta one of the young guards asked me how I felt. I told him I was speechless, lost for words. He said proudly: Yup, it's awesome isn't it?

And that is basically the sentiment in there from the most basic recruit, through to the medical staff, the psychiatrists, right up to the Rear Admiral. There is nothing temporary about Guantanamo. Do not expect it to be closed down when the new man steps into The White House.

I don't know who will sit in The White House - Barak Obama or John McCain and the US media can't decide either. They're waiting for a message from Usama bin Ladin. Can you believe it?

One of the first people I interviewed when I returned home from Guantanamo was brother Moazzam Begg, a British detainee who went through untold atrocities at the hands of the so-called civilized American military.

He was kidnapped in the middle of the night from his home in Islamabad and sold to the Americans for 5,000 dollars.

And while we've spoken many times before this latest interview triggered something new inside me.

I had read his book Enemy Combatant and often heard him talk about the screams of a female prisoner in Bagram but in truth, while I would never question Moazzam's story, I did assume that what he heard was a series of pre-recorded tapes performed by actors as part of the CIA/FBI mental torture program.

So in this latest interview I threw this theory at Moazzam and he responded saying he knew the screams were real because other brothers in Guantanamo talked about it when he arrived there and, more importantly there were eye witness accounts, brothers who had actually seen the woman detainee.

Bagram, he said, was far worse than anything in Guantanamo. Did you know four Arab brothers escaped from Bagram in July 2005? Did you? Well this is something the Americans do not want you to know, but they did and when they fled that hell hole one brother gave an interview to talk about the plight of one prisoner in particular.

This prisoner was the woman that Moazzam Begg heard scream throughout the night, every night without fail. When the Arab brother saw her he said she had clearly lost her mind. She had been raped, abused and used without mercy by those dogs in Bagram.

Her state was so wretched the male detainees in Bagram went on hunger strike.

Without giving away sources, we soon established that the woman in Bagram was registered in US intelligence documents as Prisoner 650 - I was horrified. I suddenly realized that the screams Moazzam had heard were real.

As you know I was held in Afghanistan by the Taliban for 10 days. They were 10 terrifying days even though I was given the key to lock my own door, even though my captors always knocked and asked permission to enter my room. Whenever I needed to use the bathroom, I only had to ask and I was escorted to the bathroom and an armed guard remained outside while I washed and showered in complete privacy.

But no such respect and decency was given to Prisoner 650 - no, this sister was brutalized. She had to share the same open toilet as the men and there were no closed doors, or shower curtains when she wanted to wash.

No wonder Moazzam still hears her cries and screams today.

I also began to hear her cries and screams and so I came to Pakistan in July to ask for help.

I turned to Imran Khan, a great politician and a man of integrity - he agreed to organize a press conference, and was so moved by the mission to find Prisoner 650. I begged the media to help demand the release of Prisoner 650.

I pointed out that my story had made headlines and front page news for the entire 10 days of my captivity when I was captured by the Taliban after 9/11 simply because I am a white, western woman.

Back in Britain, Lord Nazir Ahmed answered my call for help. Not only did he submit a series of hard-hitting questions to the British Government, he roused the Pakistan media in London and announced that if Prisoner 650 was not released then he and I would go to the gates of Bagram and demand her release.

It was inevitable that people would assume Prisoner 650 was Dr Siddiqui and the awkward questions started to be asked after more than 100 media turned up at our scrambled press conference. A Cage Prisoner report was handed out giving the wider picture of the disappeared in Pakistan.

Then suddenly Dr Aafia Siddiqui emerged as though a magician had pulled a rabbit out of a hat - she emerged in a dazed and confused state outside the Governor of Gardez's offices in Afghanistan.

Imagine that … FIVE years after her disappearance in Karachi. And according to the FBI she was carrying in her handbag pieces of bomb-making equipment and photographs of various landmarks in New York City.

What nonsense and how dare the FBI insult our intelligence this way.

Of course the FBI lost much of its credibility when its chief J Edgar Hoover was revealed to be a transvestite who preferred to wear a red dress and be called by the name of Mary.

Hoover, probably one of the most powerful men in America was the originator of dirty tricks campaigns, lies and deceits and his legacy lives on.

Even today US intelligence officers live in a fantasy world but instead of mincing around in red frocks they spend their time dressing up the truth with layer after layer of lies.

Sadly most of the American people have no idea what has, and still is, being done in their name. If they knew the truth they would be disgusted like the rest of us, so please do not vent your anger on ordinary US citizens, they are as much victims of the Bush Administrations lies as the rest of us.

This was quite evident with the story of Dr Aafia Siddiqui.

It is no coincidence that Cage Prisoners had raised the issue of Dr Siddiqui less than two weeks before.

Many of you know Dr Siddiqui's story - she had been shot by a brave US soldier at close range after she managed to overpower one of his colleagues and fire a gun twice. This woman is less than 70 pounds. This story is rubbish.

If you want the truth she was shot three times - once in the back, by two US soldiers and she NEVER attempted to wrestle any of them or disarm them.

They actually left her for 15 minutes to bleed to death - they shot to kill, but it was the insistence of Afghans at the scene that resulted in medical treatment and surgery.

The US authorities had no right under international law to then cart off this injured victim to America - imagine that t the victim is now back in the hands of her abusers.

But you know what makes this even worse - while our sister lies in agony waiting to be tried for nonsense charges in an American court, two of her children, a babe in arms and toddler (at the time of their disappearance), are still missing. Where are they?

And I'll tell you something else which should make your blood run cold. The Americans have now admitted that the Grey Lady of Bagram does exist.

But Dr Aafia Siddiqui is NOT Prisoner 650, the Grey Lady of Bagram. We still do not know who Prisoner 650 is. We do not know where she is, and we do not know how many other Pakistani women are being held as female enemy combatants - yes, that is what the pentagon calls them: Female Enemy Combatants.

Today I am begging each and every one of you, as your sister in Islam, to help me find Prisoner 650.

If you remain silent I may never find her. But I tell you something now - I can hear her screams and when you go to bed tonight so will you.

Have we all sunk so low that the cries of this sister remain unanswered? The time has come when the people of Pakistan need to restore pride to this great country. You here today can set the agenda. You here today can make a change. You here today can get rid of those rotten politicians and their weasel words.

Those in power only seem great because they try and keep you on your knees. Rise up and bow to no one but Allah. When the people lead, the leaders will follow.

(Yvonne Ridley is a British renowned journalist, captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan, while on assignment with the London's Sunday Express in 2001. She subsequently converted to Islam and now works for the Iranian-based 24-hour English language news channel Press TV, where she fronts her own London-based current affairs show, The Agenda. She was a regular contributor and columnist of defunct Muslims Weekly-New York, the parent newspaper of DailyMuslims.com. She continues her column for DailyMuslims.com.)